NYC-Parents in Action Online Seminar Series
“Healing Together: Navigating Grief and Loss” October 2024
By Melanie Wells
Grief is a big subject, hard to face and difficult to discuss. At the NYC-PIA October Online Seminar, Dr. Alan D. Schlechter, child and adolescent psychiatrist at NYU Langone’s Child Study Center, held a frank and compassionate conversation on the topic with Brie Overton, LPC, FT and Chief Clinical Officer of Experience Camps, an organization dedicated to supporting children dealing with grief.
Dr. Schechter opened the Online Seminar with generous praise for NYC-PIA:
“We know kids can’t get better if their parents can’t get better,” he said, “and that’s what NYC-PIA is about.” The organization works within the independent school community to help parents “learn together,” providing informative seminars and a parent network through facilitated meetings. “I enjoy these meetings,” he said, “even though I’m supposed to be an expert, but no one is an expert at raising their own children!”
Dr. Schlechter then introduced Brie Overton, Licensed Professional Counselor, and grief expert. “We’re privileged to have her here today, to speak about the concept of grief,” he said, and hopefully leave listeners with “better language” on the subject.
Brie Overton briefly explained her work: “Experience Camps offers a free, one-week overnight experience for kids who’ve experienced the death of a family member, usually a parent, sibling or primary caregiver,” she said. “My professional life is centered on grief, loss and dying and I have specialties in child and adolescent counseling and family systems counseling. I work with that family system when a death occurs and have worked with families who have received a terminal diagnosis, too, to help both the people who are actively dying and the family around them. We’ll talk today about grief and loss, and I look forward to your questions.”
Grief isn’t just about death, she noted. “We also feel grief from other life circumstances, such as job loss, natural disasters like pandemics or storms, and the feelings that come from living through them and their aftermath.” Grief may also occur after an injury that changes one’s abilities – loss and grief can occur around many situations.
Ms. Overton addressed a few myths around grief:
1) Grief Stages: This is not the same for every individual. Naming specific stages doesn’t help find best ways to support people.
2) Timelines: We may hear that grieving people “aren’t moving on.” However, “grief is big,” so as we move through it, our grief may stay the same but our life experiences change and we grow. After a while our grief may look smaller in relation to our experiences, which have grown around it.
3) Getting back to normal: Actually, the goal is not to “get back to normal,” but, rather, move through grief and adjust to a life WITHOUT whom or what we have lost.
AS: Brie, I love what you just said. Quite often I am asked how we can define the emotion of grief – it is actually, secretly, “love.” Emotions are mixed: grief is love mixed with sadness, and there can be anger.
BO: Anger is complex. When someone dies sometimes we do feel anger but there are different levels – we can be angry at the person who died, or angry at the hospital, or angry at ourselves, or angry at a higher power or God. Sadness comes up, and so does guilt, a lot. (“Maybe I could’ve done something differently to prevent this happening…”) Depression and longing are there also and can cause feelings in the body, a heaviness in the stomach, a weight on one’s shoulders, hives, or other reactions.
Yearning is there, and there may be numbness, as when you say, “I don’t feel anything. What’s wrong with me?” Actually, nothing is wrong. There are many parts to grief – I can feel happy AND sad. I can feel glad the person is no longer suffering, but sad that they’re gone.
AS: You said that so well. A question just came in: We’re going to attend the funeral of a grandparent, the first time for my child; how do we prepare? First, I’d caution not to give a “trigger warning.” It is not a good idea. In studies with two groups – one that gets a trigger warning and one that doesn’t – the group that got the warning showed higher levels of anxiety. A strong trigger warning can heighten anxiety. Brie, what do you say?
BO: Is this the first funeral service or wake they’ve attended? If so, a child won’t know what that looks like. You can help by setting expectations. Give some information and logistics: This weekend we’ll attend Grandma’s funeral. We’ll be going to a church, we will see a casket (explain what it is), here’s where we’ll sit, we may see people who look sad or are crying. Also say, you may have some feelings and whatever feeling is there, it’s okay. And if you do not feel sad, that’s okay too. When someone dies there are lots of feelings folks can have, and it’s okay.
And give kiddoes a safe word or some signal that allows them to take a break if it gets too overwhelming. A five year old probably can’t sit through the whole service. Give kids an out. If they’re confused, step away to have a conversation.
AS: That’s great. When I went to my first, I got the giggles. It can feel uncomfortable. I don’t get the giggles anymore, but there may be pressure to “feel bad.” If the kids didn’t know the grandparent well and there’s pressure to feel a certain way, it can be hard.
Next question: How do you talk about a death by suicide with teens? What about the contagion effect — unique to teens – how best to handle that?
BO: With a suicide, it’s important for you, the adult, to handle your own grief before you speak with your child. If you can find a way to be composed, it helps your child. Be honest and clear, use age-appropriate language, steer clear of euphemisms (“passed away” vs. “died”) and be aware of the stigma around death by suicide. Acknowledge and validate your child’s feelings – even if it’s anger or a lack of specific feeling. Encourage questions; they may have many. When answering, be sure to stay with the facts. Don’t imply – stick with facts.
Existential questions may come up: what does this mean for me? What is my life going to be without this friend who died? As to the contagion effect: watch for the signs. These can be withdrawal, appetite changes, sleep disturbance, changes in schoolwork or activity.
As you’re processing through the loss, ask whether you’re creating memories you want to remember. Suicide does not define the person. The person lived a life – how do we remember the life of the person, and not just define them by their suicide?
AS: When kids are introduced to this concept, that a human being can actually die by suicide, it’s scary to face that. They may not understand that the child who died had been suffering for a long time. And we live in a world where there is shame and stigma around the bad feelings that led to it. There’s fear too: your child may be scared of a sudden change: one day I’ll be totally fine, then next day a switch is hit in my head and suddenly it’ll be okay for me to do that?? Assure your child, no this won’t happen to you – if you start to have thoughts like this, you can tell someone. Then we can talk about it.
I’m interested in preventive mental health care. Your brain’s job is to keep you alive, not necessarily keep you happy, but keep you alive. So, the moment your brain sends out intrusive thoughts – it should make you think, oh something’s wrong, I need to go the ER, I need help.
BO: Reach out for support. This can mean talking to your mom, talking to a teacher, talking to a person you trust. You may have had a thought you’ve never had before and it’s troubling – so lean into it, and normalize that it’s fine to go talk to someone about it. Make sure your kids know that.
AS: Question: How do I know if my kid should get therapy?
Just because something bad happened doesn’t mean automatically that therapy is needed. If say, a few months after a death by suicide, intrusive thoughts begin, then maybe it is needed. But first give it about 6 months and see how the person is recovering; wait to see if therapy is needed. There can be growth and learning post-grief. I call it “post-grief-growth.” We find that more than 50% of people grow after a trauma. There is actually more growth after trauma than PTSD after trauma.
Q: What advice for kids/moms who’ve lost a father at a young age, say ages 4 to 7?
BO: That’s a profound loss. It impacts both the child and the mother in unique ways. Acknowledge and normalize that grief. If you’re thinking, I don’t want my kids to see me angry or crying, I’d push back. Don’t hide the emotions, or your child will learn they must hide theirs. Lean in instead – we are modeling what it looks like to grieve in healthy ways. Confusion, sadness and tears are part of that.
A sense of security is important. If one parent died, a child should feel that the parent remaining will be there to help keep daily schedules, keep life as regular as possible. Assure kids someone will be there: if mom can’t pick up after school, tell them Grandma will come.
Your kids will not always be in the same space of grief as you – they process it differently than we do. They may go quickly in and out of their grief, and may not want to talk about it when you do. So, leave lines of communication open and be ready to talk when they’re ready.
Let them know how you plan to keep Dad’s memory alive – maybe observing anniversaries or special traditions, things they used to do with Dad. When a question comes up, make sure you answer only the question your child is asking. Then ask, did I answer that question for you? If not, say “I don’t have the answer to that one. Let’s figure out how to answer it.”
At milestones in life (e.g., graduation from high school) be prepared for the child to say “I wish Dad were here for this.” Leave space to bring Dad up and bring him into those moments.
AS: How do you deal with anticipatory loss, like a terminal diagnosis? How do you prepare?
BO: Acknowledge what’s happening, the loss to come, and talk about it. Talk about what it will look like. It’s a grief that’s very complex, because the person has not yet died. We know we will be sad WHEN they die, but how about how we feel now? A parent may be alive and look well physically, so prepare the child by giving bite-sized chunks of what might come – “Dad may lose weight and look smaller, or he may have less hair, or he might start to use a cane.” Lean into creating memories as the illness progresses.
There will be dual realities of living, while preparing for dying. People around the dying person will still be keeping up their routines, so you’ll need to learn, as a family, how to do this together. Make sure your child feels free to come to you as questions arise. Help reframe expectations about a future you can no longer have – this is hard for both of you. Be sure the door is always open to conversation.
Q: Can you stop grieving the death of a son?
BO: The short answer? No.
Alan, you said it beautifully earlier – grief includes love. Grief is that emotional response to our son no longer being here physically. How do we stay connected to the person after the death? How do we keep their memory alive so we can remember them as we move forward? We can’t make grief stop, so we process through the feelings as they come, and we keep memories alive.
Q: What about the grief of a divorce, or a family estrangement? How do you talk about grief when it’s like they’re not alive, but you know they still are out there?
ABO: An abrupt end to any relationship is tough. Acknowledge that loss. Say, this hurts, this doesn’t feel good. Emphasize to kids that it’s not their fault. The divorce, the person who has withdrawn – it’s not your child’s fault. Encourage them to express their emotions – journaling, talking, through play, however they may want to express these feelings. And be sure they know whatever feelings they have are OKAY. It’s okay to miss the person, whatever the circumstances were that led to separation.
Model healthy boundary setting – what if the estranged family member wants to come back? Give kids options, talk about what works best for them. Focus on what you can control – when someone walks away or there’s a divorce – as well as things you can’t.
Q: Are there techniques we should use?
BO: Listen. Really listen to what your child needs. Lean in. Communicate. Also, don’t assume, ask. ASK what your child needs.
There are physical things you can do, too. Take a walk, do active things. Help your body feel better – this can help with your processing.
AS: Yes, and do these things even when you don’t want to. Even if it may not feel good to do things physically, in the long run it is what helps you recover.
Brie, thank you! You were so thoughtful and inspiring, and I will use your words with people I work with, and with my own heart.
Thanks, NYC-PIA, for organizing this today, and I hope all of you will find this helpful. That’s what NYC-PIA is about – “It takes a village.”